Death and it's place in anime

This is a continuation of the discussion started here.
http://dubtopian-review.eu/groups/the-anime-cafe/forum/topic/ga-rei-zero-discussion/page/2/

So for anyone joining in what do you think about death in anime? I"m not talking about background characters dying I'm talking about important characters. Guys that actually matter. Do you like it better when an anime doesn't kill off characters or do you think it improves the story? Can you think of any other ways to make a story unpredictable without resorting to the "Look someone important actually died" card?

 

Meh, I have already wrote a lot in Ga-Rei: Zero, so I'll be short now

In my opinion, the longer the series, the more emotional things must happen to keep me entertained. If the series are always following happy ending theme, then I get a bit frustrated. For example, Bleach and Fairy Tail. Bleach has "killed" so many chars, yet they are brought back by some new "method". Fairy Tail on the other hand barely had anyone injured seriously... they power up and hit their strongest hit, but in the end it's always just a K-O! I am like come on... At least lose an arm or a leg or something... now it's "childish". So if the chars never get hurt too much, I guess I shouldn't even talk what a letdown is that they do no kill ANYONE AT ALL, even the bad guys or some random supporting guys who barely ever appear in the anime. Both anime's are great indeed, but the authors could be more daring... Just look at One Piece and Naruto how much they improved after some certain char's deaths. I don't say it's the only way, but sometimes and especially longer anime's need to have some darker moments too...

 

Ovyda wrote:
Meh, I have already wrote a lot in Ga-Rei: Zero, so I’ll be short now

In my opinion, the longer the series, the more emotional things must happen to keep me entertained. If the series are always following happy ending theme, then I get a bit frustrated. For example, Bleach and Fairy Tail. Bleach has “killed” so many chars, yet they are brought back by some new “method”. Fairy Tail on the other hand barely had anyone injured seriously… they power up and hit their strongest hit, but in the end it’s always just a K-O! I am like come on… At least lose an arm or a leg or something… now it’s “childish”. So if the chars never get hurt too much, I guess I shouldn’t even talk what a letdown is that they do no kill ANYONE AT ALL, even the bad guys or some random supporting guys who barely ever appear in the anime. Both anime’s are great indeed, but the authors could be more daring… Just look at One Piece and Naruto how much they improved after some certain char’s deaths. I don’t say it’s the only way, but sometimes and especially longer anime’s need to have some darker moments too…


I do see you're point once again especially in Fairy Tail's case. One Piece is a good example of character death done really well.

Spoiler

Like when Ace and white beard died. We really didn't know either of them all that well. White beard was always a big mystery up until his death and Ace only showed up a handful of times (Not counting Luffy's flash back arc). So the series didn't sacrifice important characters and you didn't lose a character you really liked but it still had a major impact. Even if you knew Ace's death was coming (I did) you STILL felt it during that scene. Whitebeards standing corpse was still a bit awe inspiring even thought you barely knew him. In those case the deaths weren't really used as a cheap way to keep things unpredictable, make things tragic, or depressing. Those things did happen but the purpose was the impact the events themselves had on the characters and the world as a whole.

This is partly due to my own tastes and my dislike of tragedies but the point is even when the death of a character is somehow needed to strengthen the story it doesn't have to be mostly dark and depressing.

 

Eh I have to reply on this post in spoiler...

Spoiler

Ace was my favorite character together with Zoro even tho I hadn't seen much of him, he was very appealing to me from the very first encounter... his death was really really sad to me... I still get upset when I remember it... I even have Ace's avi/sig after all, it shows how much it means to me. So his death was a major loss to me.

But as long as it helped to develop the story I don't mind... sometimes you need to sacrifice something to improve.

 

If all the role characters start dying but the main one's are immune to that then it gets on my nerves a bit. Of course killing off the main characters would change the direction of the show in a large way unless it was done at the end. Not a whole lot of shows would do that at the half-way point.

 

Well, I think it's a bit of a sacrifice. On the one hand, I really hate seeing characters that I've grown attached to die, but on the other, it almost always has a massive impact when they do. That said, I think there are a number of ways to achieve the same effect without killing anyone. Death is a very emotionally evocative experience, and it's that emotional stimulation, in my opinion, that makes death such a strong plot device.

But, it's not death specifically that relates to that sort of stimulation, that's just one facet of it. We're talking about loss and grief. So, while death is one way to achieve this sense of loss, and all of the feelz that go with it, you can get the same reaction by doing things like ending relationships and causing heartbreak, or by causing a character to lose everything, and utterly breaking them in the process. I guess this is pointing out the obvious in a way, but I felt the need to break it down.

And the reverse is also true. Grief is an example of an extreme negative emotion, but its opposite, joy, is just as compelling to an audience, though a little harder to achieve, I think. Killing a bad guy who really, really deserves it in a fitting way comes to mind, though the link between justice and joy is a bit tenuous.

But all of this said, I don't think either of these things are exactly necessary elements, certainly not in anime. If you've got a great story, held up by great characters, good designs and great animation (whether epic action scenes or more slice of life-ish fare), a series can be forgiven for ignoring your heart strings. Though It'll always be the ones that send you on a rollercoaster ride of emotions that inevitably leave the strongest impressions on you.

 

It always adds more feels if a main die, and normally what comes with death is story progression or plot, so generally its not a bad thing but it always hurts when someone awesome dies.

 

It really depends on the circumstances of the plot and how good the writing is. Killing off a character just to create some cheap melodrama gets on my nerves, and it's especially so for long-running shounens which love to kill off characters for dramatic effect but then never accept the consequences of those actions by bringing the characters back to life for some reason involving a deus ex machina.

On the other hand, you got examples like Chrono Crusade where the deaths of certain characters make the story more meaningful and touching despite that it's hard to watch. In these cases I'm completely OK with it. If you never have characters die even though they're constantly being thrown into life-threatening situations, this can equally become too tedious and predictable (as well as unrealistic).

 

It really depends on the circumstances of the plot and how good the writing is. Killing off a character just to create some cheap melodrama gets on my nerves, and it’s especially so for long-running shounens which love to kill off characters for dramatic effect but then never accept the consequences of those actions by bringing the characters back to life for some reason involving a deus ex machina.


I agree with Siets statement basically.

Spoiler

This is what SAO SHOULD have done with Kirito.