The Russians are Coming

Sorry guys I have a confession to make. When I voted for Donald Trump I was a willing pawn to Vladimir Putin. See what isn't said about the other half of Trump supporters (the non deplorables) is that they are Russian nationalists that have infiltrated the country.
Nevermind the fact that you can't find any stories of Russian spies inside voting booths, they were always there. They are among us in the millions. See we used secret Russian KGB tactics to erase the ink from people's ballots. When you insert your paper ballot in the machine we all distracted the watcher person with a bottle of vodka while one of our agents somehow connected the machine to the world wide web. From there it connected to some guy's computer in Siberia where they forwarded it to the Kremlin so they can rewrite the vote to count for Trump. They did this for millions of votes and for 50 different state ballots. That's why so many Clinton people ended with a hangover the following day, we spent the whole night getting them drunk so they couldn't see us hijacking the election. That's why when you ask them if they saw anything strange on voting day no one can recall Russian spies.

It was a colossal effort to know in advance the different ballot types of 50 states but we at the Kremlin were able to get that information and avoid detection. This was easiest to do in states like Michigan where the Democrats never showed up to campaign in. They thought it was "safe". It was so easy to hijack the election in these kinds of places where Hillery Clinton didn't show up. We even enlisted a few disgruntled Bernie Sander's supporters, thank you guys!

Agents inside the DNC also let our secret Russian site "Wikileaks" know that the DNC has it's own followers make up the American media complex. We exposed this and twisted it to make it look like it's a horrible breach of trust.

This of course is the Russian's fault. Things like this should always be a secret. Nevermind the fact that Wikileaks is operated by some Australian guy called Julian Assange. He's a Russian agent, just take my word. He's on Putin's payroll just like many so called "Americans" you call neighbor.

We also engaged in voter suppression, this explained the low turnout by democrat voters. See the formula was devised by former Russian spy Bernie Sanders. He used to be our friend (even had his honeymoon here when we were glorious Soviet Union!). It's very simple, just begin by telling people that the DNC was rigged and sponsored by big banks and special interests. By painting legitimate hard working lobbyist as "bad" and "corrupt" we succeeded in making Hillery Clinton one of the most unlikable people on Earth. Our fake news website "Wikileaks" concocted bogus stories about how she took money from outside sources and how people who work under her were deliberately trying to stir violence. And if this didn't work we created even crazier websites like Infowars that would definitely convince even the most hardcore Clinton supporters to vote Trump. After all, the best way to convince a die hard supporter to change sides to to make up a story about the most heinous thing imaginable. Of course they'll believe it!

Nevermind the fact that those kinds of websites are populated by people who wouldn't vote for Clinton anyway...

Our glorious Russian operation didn't stop there! In order for these kinds of websites to even exist we needed to create an atmosphere of distrust in the American media. For some strange reason legitimate and popular news like the Washington Post, New York Times, and others made repeated and honest mistakes in their coverage of the elections. T.V news organizations also had a strange fixation on our groomed candidate who has never met Putin, Donald Trump. We used these kinds of mistakes to paint the media as evil and corrupt just like Clinton. This was easy to do because coincidental they had many connections to the their campaign. How horrible for them, something that should have been positive turned out to work against them. It's completely unfair I know. That's how Russian agents roll, we turn your advantage against you. The stronger you are the more likely you'll fall to Russian Winter.

Oh I have so many other stories to tell on the day the Russians took over America. I am a deplorable Russian spy, codenamed DOOMGUY. When we begin construction of the Great Wall of Putin I only hope it's high enough because the rising water levels of the planet is about to rise really quickly now. Without Clinton and the help of her people the planet is doomed.

Doomguy signing off to the new glorious anthem of the Confederate Socialist States of America

Spoiler

"But Doomguy, that's the communist Russian anthem"


Sorry I can't tell the difference. I may be a Russian spy but I don't speak Russian

"That's not what I mean he's the ultimate capitalist!"
Would you prefer this one?

Spoiler

Forgive me for having my fun this year but the daily stories of people unable to cope with reality just begs to be made fun of

 

Haha, Well. All jokes aside everyone may hate it, but hopefully trump isn't dumb enough to deny friendship between Americans and Russians. I'd rather have peace than another cold war.

 

Except that Trump has admitted to being in contact with Putin during his campaign. He was even endorsed by Putin. Russia is a hostile foreign nation and has every capability of waging cyber warfare on the U.S. and influencing American politics. Hell, the United States does it all the time to foreign powers.

I get that you're taking the piss, but this is HOE and this warrants a serious discussion. Regardless of whether you support Trump or not (I, personally, cannot fathom why anybody would), these allegations are not to be taken lightly.

The CIA have concluded that Russian hackers fed information on the DNC to Wikileaks and withheld information on the RNC. If that's true, it could be enough to influence election polls in Trump's favor. I mean, you only need to win by a small margin in the swing states and the Presidency is yours, it doesn't really matter how you try to influence the rest of the country. And, seemingly, it works. All that anyone was doing during the election was talking about emails.

Wikileaks has to get their information from somewhere, and that somewhere is often government sponsored or independent hackers or whistleblowers. It's entirely feasible that they would be fed information like this by Russia. If this were true and Russian agents truly desired to influence the presidential elections, which candidate do you think they would throw their support behind? The experienced politician whom is well known for being skilled in matters of state and whose views directly oppose the political climate in Russia as well as Putin's regime? Or the inexperienced billionaire whom is friendly toward Putin and shares views similar to that of Russian policies?

If a foreign power did influence our election, that's a serious problem. It doesn't really matter whom they supported, the fact that a foreign power could get away with influencing our elections is unacceptable and detrimental to our independence and democracy. If Congress can launch 33 investigations into Bhengazi and turn up nothing, despite having something to gain from finding dirt on Clinton, why then would this CIA report not warrant further investigation?

Why is it that we're willing to accept that the DNC rigged the primaries against Sanders but aren't willing to entertain the idea that a third party could have helped to tip the scales in the general election?

If a CIA report had stated that Russia helped Clinton win the election, there would be a witch hunt by conservatives while many Clinton supporters would likely stay quiet or dismiss it, and it would be just as wrong. For once, I actually find myself agreeing with this asshole.

Democracy, government by the people, is the highest of American ideals and we must combat tyranny in all its forms, regardless of whom it favors.

 

There hasn't been a single shred of evidence brought to the table regarding any kind of hacks. Not even the CIA brought any evidence either. Instead we get vagaries and anonymous sources. How utterly convenient, no one has to take the blame for spreading FUD.

Because that's what this is. FUD. Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt.

Fine. I guess you aren't in a laughing mood.

I'll tell you what I really think then since you don't appreciate my humor right now.
This whole thing is nothing more then theater. All of this is just a sham to give disgruntled democrat voters who don't understand why they lost a reason to cling to the democratic party. By undermining the President elect they wash away any responsibility that they ran the worst candidate in the history of the United States. They choose to ignore the obvious that they have completely and utterly failed in every facet of the election (house, senate, president), and even further down the political landscape. They don't want to face the fallout from such a colossal failure so they invent a likely boogeyman.

They tried racism, facism, misogynistism, and xenophobism. And yes I know two of them aren't even words but after a while the -isms start to sound the same. Since those terms don't stick and would actually require proof that the voters are in fact those things (oh we had our fun with this trust me), instead they pick the invisible enemy. Borrowing from the old Republican party playbook they'll blame the Russians! They replace the vintage "saboteur" with something modern like a hacker and there we go. You don't even have to talk about the actual voter (where Clinton went horribly wrong). Brilliant scheme from the Democrats, if only Hillery didn't call a whole bunch of people deplorable and just stuck with the Russian angle right?

No proof required either since its just FUD. Just use an organization under your control (the media, the CIA, can't rely on the FBI anymore since they have to juggle investigating the Clinton Foundation...). Get them to release an ominous statement about Russian hackers. This is how you do it without getting caught.

• Don't print any names on it. Just call them "anonymous sources" Bonus points if it's a "senior anonymous source" as if to say this is completely out of a everyday persons hands. If names were included then it wouldn't take long for someone to challenge this person to reveal what they know.
  
• Don't mention any places in the U.S where any kind of hacking took place. After all it would be really easy to check with state officials if any funny business took place.
• Don't actually make a conclusive accusation. Be vague in the details. Use public perception of the facts versus any kind of actual accusation. Plausible Deniability.
• Make sure nothing actually gets done about an invesitgation because this will require an investigation. Stonewall the investigations and make sure no one actually does anything. It worked for the FBI for years, the CIA by virtue of having a director hand picked by the boss man himself would ensure nothing gets done.
  
• (And I'll like to add to the final part the possibility of illegal immigrant voter fraud would probably accidently be exposed by an agent. Can't have that be revealed now can it?)

If this was really as serious as you somehow believe it to be, then ask yourself why hasn't anyone with real information on what exactly is being investigated come forward yet?
We had plenty of people coming forward regarding the Clintons. Whether you believe them or not is not the question, only that we actually have a face to these people.
Who then are the witnesses to these accusations against our system of government? Since it's already after the fact it should be okay to at least tell us something right? Some kind of clue on what went wrong right? Where and how did these "hacks" take place? What exactly happened?

Not that any of this would amount to a damn thing. They, the government and all those sycophants politicians who stands the most to lose, are drumming up fake news about Russian spies and hackers.
They just want to spread FUD about Trump because their days are coming to a close. Got to keep their voters focused on anything but the party's failure. This is the safest and easiest way they can do so without actually calling anyone the dreaded "-isms". Of course it's undermining our system but so long as they don't actually name anyone they can continue to lie their way to keep power within the party. Hopefully this is a pathetic last ditch effort to make themselves relevant.

This will be a nonstory in four months. That's my prediction. Unless Obama goes on in and joins the madness. He wouldn't though, he has an ego too and this is something he would rather have blow up in Clinton's face.

This is my real thoughts and opinions on this matter. I feel this is far more likely the reason this controversy even exists, a sham to protect themselves from further backlash against their own party members.

Spoiler

Can we go back to making fun of Russian memes?

 

The KGB grab us all by the pussy.

 

Yet, while you claim that the CIA give no evidence to support their claims, all that you have stated is merely conjecture.

Clinton's various scandals have been investigated many times over despite no results and no hard evidence of wrong doing. Should those investigations have never happened, as well?

While much of my argument is also conjecture, I make some valid points as to how and why Russia could or would influence our elections. Likewise, you make valid points as to why it could be an attempt to sweep the DNC loss under the rug. But how is that viewpoint anymore valid? And is it not worth finding out for sure?

Either conclusion is plausible, and it's not above the CIA to make spurious claims for the sake of politics, but the fact is that this is our primary intelligence agency and, while we don't have to believe them outright, we should take their claims seriously and conduct investigations to seek out further evidence.

And for the record, the Russian memes make me giggle. Good day, sir!

 

Sigh,
Here is the Washington Post on what the CIA said. Can someone find me some names of places, people, and precincts so we can get to the bottom of this? I saw James "misspoke" Clapper of NSA fame mentioned somewhere. Other then that this is really top secret. So top secret that apparently no state official has come forward about this.

And then the underline part

Spoiler

Not going to go through this again. Come on you know this already, there was prior build up to this moment and definite substance to conduct an investigation. They didn't investigate this for fun, she brought it upon herself.

Based on what? Putin's Endorsements? Kind words?
Can we also investigate whether Saudi Arabia influenced the election? After all Clinton gets donations from them.
See I can play this game too.

 

No one is playing a game, except, perhaps, you by your own admission. I've said, and genuinely believe, that this forum is usually a bastion of civil discussion. Hence why I'm not being snarky, it's not helpful nor conducive to intelligent discourse. If this were just a pissing contest, I could find that anywhere else.

Wikileaks rarely discloses its sources, most outlets reporting on information that is meant to be secret do not report their sources as it would be harmful to said sources. The CIA not wanting to out sources isn't enough to write them off.

You want names and hard evidence? So do I. But that doesn't come about through dismissal. You don't get to dismiss so bold a claim by the CIA out of hand simply because you aren't convinced by what little of their report is made public. The President plans to review these claims, whatever that means, and hopefully Congress will also support and launch investigations into the matter.

It's fine if you don't buy it. You shouldn't. In fact, you should be skeptical of any single report, especially ones with so much secrecy surrounding them. But the next logical step from skepticism isn't dismissal but investigation, otherwise you're just deciding what is and isn't real based on, again, conjecture.

If Uncle Joe in his tin foil hat made this report, there's no credibility behind that. But we can't just decide to start ignoring whatever CIA intelligence suits us. When an organization with that degree of authority makes so bold a claim, you listen. I'm not saying you have to believe them, but we do need to find out if they're correct.

 

Didn't CNN or NBC (who by the way were arrogant in claiming Clinton would win) actually report that Putin neither endorsed nor was he against a Trump administration, but that some of Russia's population (at least in Moscow) supported Trump, others against Trump, and some on the fence or just didn't care either way? What Putin did admit is that only Clinton was a known variable because she has been in politics, and since she's been secretary of state, Russians have had to deal with her a few times. I would hardly call that an endorsement from Putin, just a straight forward view. I doubt any nation really wants to deal with Clinton, except maybe her Middle Eastern donors who were placing all bets against a Trump win and hoping for some rewards afterwards. Trump is an unknown and that's how Putin sees it. He's not going to endorse him, but neither is he going to bet against him either. If anything, he's probably going to be cautious until something beneficial to both (especially towards Russia) comes to fruition. Russia isn't exactly our allies, but a Clinton campaign would only hinder any real peaceful relations with Russia. The deal with Iran didn't exactly help our relations with Russia.

 

I don't know if CNN reported that. But that's a fair point. Putin hasn't explicitly endorsed Trump, but the two have been in communication and on, seemingly, friendly terms. Putin has suggested that he would prefer a Trump presidency to a Clinton on, which I would consider an endorsement with regards to the election, but maybe that is for the reason that you've given. Perhaps Clinton, or any experienced politician, represents a continuation of U.S. anti-Russian policies, as has been the norm since the 50's, and Trump represents a possibility of flexibility with Russia.

The relationship between Russia and the United States is a complex one stemming from a variety of issues, some of which are decades old. While it's only natural to want better relations with any nation, at what point do we draw the line? Do we break formation and end the proxy wars we've been waging against them for years? (That would be nice.). Do we make concessions which may harm American interests or give power to Russian-aligned nations which we have, historically, struggled to keep under foot? Should we limit relations with them due to their extreme civil rights violations or due to the near dictatorial nature of Putin's regime?

We certainly should move forward on making the world as least a hostile place as possible, and that means eventually moving past national disputes which span generations. But, exactly how we move forward with that isn't something that is entirely clear nor something that, seemingly, many people, including myself with regards to Russia, specifically, have put much thought into. But it's certainly something worth thinking about.

Putin's political enemies mysteriously disappear, referendums pass by a 90%+ majority, the Russian government actively persecutes and prosecutes LGBTQ individuals, and both the U.S. and Russia have a massive arsenal of weapons which could destroy the entire world that are regularly trained on each other as a deterrent. As such, it's hard to feel like there's much room for toleration.

If anyone is to ever thoughtfully and carefully deesculate tensions with Russia, I doubt that it will be Trump. I doubt that Trump will thoughtfully do much of anything. But I would love to be proven wrong, I honestly would. For now, however, Trump's attitude toward Putin and Putin's attitude toward Trump is unsettling, most likely because the results of Trump opening new relations with Russia are so unpredictable and I doubt Trump's ability to work for the betterment of the American people.

 

товарищи, товарищи, пожалуйста, быть спокойным. Ok, I know y'all don't read Russian. Seriously, right now we kind of need Russia on our side as well as other countries that were alienated by Obama's administration. We're going to have to unite with them to deal with radical Islamic terrorists groups, since Putin takes a stronger stance against them than we do. I believe that now, with Trump at the helm, we not only can do that, but to get America stronger again in the eyes of the world. We need to, because right now, the U.S. is pretty much a joke. We got to give Trump the chance to do what needs to be done and not worry about Russia and Putin's opinions on the matter.

 

We call those people "immigrants".

"Oouuuuuuch." or "Ahn!".
Can't tell which reaction will be appropriate.

 

Depends on which way you swing.

 

Well at least you guys got a vote, we diidnt. She magically came in to power and imo is a nazi. Anyway , I don't know much about politics but since England's PM was never voted in , I switched over to the US , see whats going on there way. I remember little old Donald, in all honesty regardless od who won, I doubt much will happen hes already back down of his certain ideas and prospect.

However speaking of Russians, they are coming, Donald not only was in communication with put way before he was an elect, he just simply likes the guy , he likes his "Philosophy" . But at the end of the day, is America teaming up with Russia and becoming close allies bad?, Im not sure I don't think so, I would rather much have Russia with me then against.

 

People are still overreacting about this whole Trump/ Russian bullshit. It really needs to stop. It's getting old.

 

This reminds me of being back in the Cold War era, with people acting like Russians are enemies.

I feel like "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" could apply to this situation.
I just don't know exactly who or what the common enemy is.

 

Right now our common enemy is Islamic terrorism. But, like I mentioned before, Putin is taking a stronger stance against it than the U.S. is right now.

 

That's a good thing, I think?

 

I think so, seems to be taking more action than words, although , regardless its been a bloody mess the USA, Russia and well anyone who have been bombing have been hitting hard by mistake innocent civilians and with the final well somewhat final push to regain main control over Syria and repell the ISIS who have taken and executed many hostages. Its a difficult end as an end is near.