Colleges

(I honestly could not come up with a title for this so meh)


A few days ago I was watching a video on Youtube by Thunderf00t where he talked about how this lady at a university wants to not only get rid of science at the university because it’s racist, but wants western culture to get rid of it and start over. Now most people would think this was a joke, hell I thought it was, but as the video went on that turned out not to be the case. The seriousness in her voice, the way her group acted when someone questioned her logic (or lack thereof) and the fact that she had about eight people with her who agreed. This is wrong on so many levels.

She was saying that science needs to be “decolonialized” (I have no idea what she means by that) and that we, as in western civilization, need to adapt to African science. What does she mean by African science? Black magic. I am not joking. She mentions about shooting lightning from your hands and curses. I want to remind you, this person is in a university.

Now this article isn’t about her at all, I was just using her as an example for this. What shocks me the most is the level of people going to college or university and throwing their futures away for an ideology. An ideology that has been disproven time and time again. So many students are majoring, or even getting a bachelor’s degree in stuff like “women’s study, diversity or social justice”. Now, there is nothing wrong with these courses. While I don’t agree with them, I have no problem with people wanting to study them. My problem comes when that’s all they do study.

You cannot get a good job with one of these degrees. These classes were made for minoring in, or for extra credit. They were not made for getting a major or higher in, because they are useless in the real, working world. And it upsets me that so many people are throwing their futures away.

People have become so ignorant in their ideologies that just the very thought of getting questioned, of someone saying “I don’t agree with you” is enough to anger them. College professors are afraid to even question their own students out of fear of getting fired. College is a place for an exchange of ideals and opinions. Too learn and to grow as a person. It is not a place made for you to “feel safe” or to not get challenged.

College tries to prepare you for life. To face the real world once you leave there and so many. So many of these places are catering to these people. The safe spaces, the telling them they are right all the time, the removal of classes in certain colleges. It’s sickening. Out in the real world there are no safe spaces. There aren’t people who will tell you you’re right. There are people out there who will lie to you. Who will hurt you. And you know what? That’s life. The real world will challenge your beliefs.

So many people want to go to college and can’t. Be it because they never finished high school, or they can’t afford it. I myself would kill to go to college. I want to learn, to better myself for when I do get a job. I want to learn about science, philosophy, different cultures, great works of literature. I want to be a smarter person. Yes, not everything I mentioned in there will get me a job, but I never said I would major in any of them. I just want to learn, like so many people. I want to have my opinions challenged. I want to be told that I am wrong.

So many of these people say that we need to have a discussion. That we need to talk about it. If what’s going on in colleges now is any indication, this is not the truth. They don’t want a discussion. A discussion is an exchange of ideals and opinions. In the video I mentioned, one of the people told them that they were wrong and one of the ladies who was with the person speaking told him that he was not allowed to say that. That there was a discussion and that hate was not allowed in that safe space. They did not back up their claims. They did not refute what he was saying. They told him to shut up and to say sorry. That is NOT a discussion.

Colleges need to change. They need to change back into what they were before; an institution of learning and education. A place where people can go to prepare themselves for the life ahead of them. As they are, I fear for the people going to them.

 

^
This is the reason why we have vocational colleges, like MATC:

(and for some reason, I am getting a kick out of seeing buckets in a representative pic for my college).

This is a college that does not teach ideologies.
It teaches just the stuff you will need for a job. A workforce college, for making you be able to get all things you need for landing a job, especially growing fields. None of that 4-8 year stuff, where you get taught a whole lot of extras, and you only hope they have need of a brain surgeon somewhere in the country.
Yeah, you can't become a surgeon here, but it will give you a good opportunity to learn and take necessary classes to get a good job.
Here, you are not a number the teachers are actually trying to get rid of.

 

Relevant video

I can see how you feel @Heizengard. About two years ago, when BLM decided to pop up at my old university, a group of students were protesting saying that all police officers were racist and should be prosecuted for their brutality against minorities. Bored and having time before class, I decided to have a "discussion" with them. When I gave my two cents on the matter, the leader of the protesters continually interrupted me, called me a "bigot" and a "racist" for stating facts and personal opinions, and told me to shut up. After about 15 minutes of trying to have a debate, a bunch of campus officers came over and told me to leave because I was causing a disturbance when all I was doing was calmly stating my point of view while the protesters were giving me suggestive hand gestures and cursing at me.

That isn't a discussion. It's a comedy show and I'm the one sitting on the couch with a bowl of popcorn.

If these whiners like you said in your OP want to gripe and moan online on places like Facebook, Twitter, and Tumblr, let em, because at least then they have their own little obnoxious playground to complain to each other in and I never have to see it. Hell, they can even go out in public in front of the local supermarket and preach from their soapbox about this stuff while everyone rolls their eyes at them.

But when you do it at a place of learning, especially where people are PAYING to go to unlike high school and are trying to change their point of view to something completely and utterly worthless, that's where I get angry. You're wasting my and countless other peoples' time, money, and resources preaching pointless dribble that you probably got from either a troll, a paranoid schizophrenic, or someone who wears aluminum foil on their heads 24/7.

 

We discussed this in the BLM thread, so I'll save my thoughts on the majority of this post.

I'm not in a position to watch the video you posted, at the moment. I'll watch it as soon as I am able, however. But, from the title, and given the subject of the thread, I can only guess it has something to do with the right to free speech on college campuses.

To be fair, Freedom of Speech only forbids the government of censoring speech. No one has the right to say whatever they please on college campuses. Does that mean that it's right when college's censor speech? No. But, there is no constitutional conflict.

So, let's start with this.

The idea that colleges or universities exist solely, or even primarily, to prepare individuals for a career is entirely a modern one. Only from the mid-twentieth century onward have companies begun to require, with greater regularity, a degree for a variety of jobs. In some fields, such as medical and research, this makes sense, certain jobs require years of study in addition to the practice of technical skills in order to achieve a basic, entry-level of competency needed to begin a career in that field. Others, however, would benefit more from apprenticeships, on-site training, or the practice of technical skills at trade schools rather than scholastic studies. But, even so, in more and more fields, employers are requiring, or preferring, candidates to have two to four year degrees from an accredited college or university. As I previously stated, this is sometimes warranted, but many employers, however, are simply feeling the need to have employees who are educated.

In many ways this is both beneficial and detrimental to to society. On one hand, you are encouraging more and more individuals to seek an education which will serve to expose them to a variety of people and mindsets from all over the world, as well as teach them how to identify credible sources, thereby enabling them to form well-informed better thought out opinions. On the other, you limit career opportunities for potentially skilled and hardworking individuals for whom college is beyond their means, due to a lack of post-secondary education or, more likely, the fact that obtaining a college education is prohibitively expensive.

Certainly, more employers should be open to the idea of accepting experienced and competent candidates whom lack the education requirements. But, the idea that college exists solely to prepare one for the "outside world" is exclusive in its own right. Career scholars and an educated citizenry have been the hallmark of great civilizations since the Classical Era. For those who could afford it or who had the opportunity, attending a university was less about preparing for a career and more about exposing themselves to various schools of thought and furthering their education. In truth, education itself is deeply rooted in philosophy. The primary cause of education is to encourage free and informed thought. This is what allows us to create technologies that take us beyond the planet's atmosphere and create vast, intricate systems used to advance society. Informed opinions and critical thought are the foundation of a civil, just, and intelligent society.

If you have the opportunity to go to college, you should absolutely major in whatever you please. The primary reason for furthering your education should be just that, furthering your education. Not preparing yourself for a field in which you have no interest simply to have a better chance at landing a job in which you have no interest so that you can work your life away, regret it, and die. In truth, as I previously stated, many employers are simply seeking educated employees, and so having a bachelors degree in any field is enough for most entry-level positions.

An educated citizenry benefits us all. There's nothing wrong with majoring in philosophy but wanting to pursue a career in welding. You can have a day job and contribute to the field of philosophy in your own time. Although we may not like to admit it, higher education does encourage us to think critically and to challenge our own beliefs and opinions, thus allowing us to create better informed opinions. And, in a nation which champions the right of every individual to participate in its political process, having a better informed, well educated citizenry can only prove beneficial. There is, simply, no good reason to value universities for job training over education.

Can you link to that video?

So, I guess we need to talk about safe spaces. We covered this a bit in the thread about trigger warnings, so I'll not go too in-depth.

"Safe spaces" are places which are designed to be free of sexual, physical, or verbal harassment. On the surface, there's nothing wrong with that. In truth, no one has the right to mistreat, harass, or make anyone else feel unsafe. When working as intended, safe spaces serve as a place where people needn't fear being mistreated, unknowingly exposed to distressful content, or having to fear interaction with others due to race, religion, nationality, sexual orientation, or gender identity. It's a great idea because it allows people to be themselves without fear of retaliation and helps those of us with mental health issues to feel safe in knowing that we won't be, unknowingly or unwillingly, exposed to anything that will aggravate our condition(s).

Of course, as with anything, there are those that will follow this idea to its extreme, creating spaces in which only a specific set of views are allowed to be expressed. And, while the proprietors of most institutions absolutely have the legal right to do this, that doesn't make it okay. It is important to differentiate, however, between speech which challenges one's world-view and expresses a difference of opinion and speech which belittles and degrades others. The former should always be acceptable in any consensual conversation whereas the latter is never acceptable in any situation.

Albeit anecdotal, in my experience, many individuals who are pro "free speech" and against safe spaces are generally upset that they aren't welcome to use speech, in some places, which degrades and dehumanizes others. Generally speaking, such speech is often directed at ethnic minorities and, especially as of late, individuals of a "non-traditional" sexual orientation or gender identity.

Ultimately, we must be conscious of what we say and bear in mind how it might affect others. There is nothing wrong with speaking freely, but we must be open to criticism of our speech and, if we realize that it proves harmful to others, we should make adjustments accordingly. We must also consider that no one has to have a conversation that they don't consent to. If, at any point during a conversation, the other party doesn't want to hear what you have to say, they don't have to and you have no right to force them into a conversation that they don't want to have. It doesn't matter whether you have a valid point or if they are being unreasonable in their fervent denial of anything which contradicts their beliefs, no one has the right to force anyone else into having a conversation. That being said, everyone absolutely should be open to criticism. None of our ideas or beliefs should be sacred, all that we hold dear and believe to be true should be subject to the greatest scrutiny. After all, an informed opinion is one grounded in empirical evidence and open to revision, not informed by baseless rhetoric.

Colleges remain one of our highest institutes of learning and free thought. They are institutions in which individuals are exposed to a variety of experiences and worldviews and in which opinions and philosophies are challenged. Of course, some colleges are better than others. There are many issues with American universities and colleges as well our approach to education, in general, but they are not, nor should they be, mere gateways to finding work or a waste of time for individuals who wish to further their knowledge and ability to think critically.

 

Tagging you, @BaconMan8910 , since selective quoting with a phone is a b!tch.

I do know that having higher education would be good, but in my case, that higher education comes at a high price.
Having to deal with paying off a monstrous student loan will stink, and the local university has a grant which, even though it is exclusive to my family, got heavily tapped into when some offshoot members started using it.
Now, what I am doing now is in my field of interest, so that is no problem. But, if I were to major in something else, I would do it in something like art or a science to prove religion undeniably.

 

School is definitely prohibitively expensive. The fact that higher education is treated like a business and a privilege instead of a basic human right is ludicrous. There is no reason whatsoever that colleges should be able to charge so much for tuition.

I'm not sure what you mean by your last statement, as it is literally impossible to prove religion, any religion, to be true as religion relies on the existence of a being or beings which are unobservable and cannot be tested for.

 

The video where I saw the thing. Ignore the title. @BaconMan8910

 

If what I heard was true, a local university (K-State) gives the students numbers instead of names, since the teachers are supposed to try getting the ones that are unable to pay or aren't serious to drop out, and the ID number keeps the teacher from feeling a personal connection with the students s/he gets to drop out.
Only hearsay, mind you. May not be true.

I was trying to come up with something worthless and senseless to study, like art and philosophy, but for some reason philosophy skipped my mind. Maybe it was my aggravation towards anti-religious sentiment that is bothering me as of late.

 

To add onto the video post: I didn't have a lot of time to look up the original video, nor did I really know what to look for. I know he has a screenshot of the article he got the video from in his video.