Political Correctness

Seeing that the holiday season is upon us and people are still making a huge deal out of nothing, I have to ask you this: where do you stand on political correctness?

In my opinion, I've had enough of it. I'm a proud atheist and don't celebrate Christmas in the traditional way (going to service, church, etc.), but I like to spend Christmas in the way in which I spend it with my family and friends and exchange presents.

So if someone were to walk up to me and say "Merry Christmas", I wouldn't say "I don't celebrate Christmas" with the option of adding unnecessary insults. I would just say "you too".

So what are your thoughts on it?

 

I think this whole PC world is ludicrous......

When someone tells you Merry Christmas it simply means they wish you well it does not matter what religion or not you follow it is simply well wishes... This whole thing about being afraid of offending someone has gone over the top.... Social Media has made this 10 times worse as it gives the PC police more visibility to their cause and stupidity...

This whole thing about you can't have anything Christmas related in public as it may offend people is stupid too.... the whole thing is stupid people getting offended by a celebration of family and friends....

FYI I do know that Christmas is to celebrate the birth of Christ a religious figure I have no illusions on that but for most people its simply to celebrate the people we love and cherish how is that offensive to anyone?

Now on the other side of the coin you do have people who will go out of their way to be offensive about Christmas to other religions and that is not right either those people should be dealt with a swift kick on the shin

 

I hate politacal correctness. Call it how it is!

 

My view on being politically correct: to Hell with it. If I cannot act as I would normally act for the sake of being politically correct, then I want no part of it. My view is to not cause friction. By being politically correct, you have jerks that try to be proper and make others feel inferior or wrong. That is friction. And according to Timekeeper, I agree with the part about giving a friendly reply to a Christmas greeting, rather that snobbishly saying that I do not celebrate Christmas.
I am not the Christian that I used to be, but what I learned going to church will stick with me in some way. It is for this reason I will not choose to be politically correct.
I consider the politically correct to be weak humans, due to them being seemingly unable to take or give potentially offensive actions.

 

I think there is a time and place for it, but it's just gone too far. A lot of the words people have problems with don't have that same meaning anymore and it just comes off as "I got called that is grade school and it hurt my feelings so no one can say it". I'm very unpolitically correct, but if someone asks me not to do something politely without yelling at me or calling me some stupid name that only makes sense to them, then I'll stop. Other then that, it has its place, but it's just gone way, way, way too far.

 

The problem that I see nowadays is that you can't say ANYTHING without offending someone

"Merry Christmas" = I don't celebrate Christmas
"Happy Holidays" = I don't celebrate any holidays
"African American" = I'm a South American black
"Caucasian" = I'm from South Africa
"Gay" = I'm bisexual

Most of these people don't realize I can't read their mind. Neither can anyone else. So either stop being so butthurt or shut up and keep griping on Tumblr/Facebook/Twitter, because no one cares

 

Nowadays, it's not even the people that should be offended that are changing all the rules. It's those that shouldn't be offended that are making a big deal out of it.

Remember when Speedy Gonzalez was banned for being "too offensive to Mexicans?" Yea, everyone BUT the Mexicans thought it was offensive.

People will be offended whenever they want to be offended. As long as they look like the victim, they can sucker people into supporting them so they can feel self worth. People are so quick to jump on board when there's a racial slur involved because it's so easy to play the victim mentality; because in the eye of society the victim is never wrong. Remember those Facebook profile pics with the French flags? It's all about what's trending, and right now the victim mentality is a trendy way of thinking, especially with social media allowing you to complain to whoever you want, whenever you want.

Well I'm not about that. I won't try to start a conflict with anyone, as I think that most conflicts are pointless [Although sometimes I let my emotions get the best of me]. But I despise the political correctness we have today because it coincides with victim mentality, which I despise.

 

Its funny the PC card came up about 5 months ago for me

I am a french person who lives in a English only community and my nickname over here is Frenchy..... Now I could let that bother me because that is not really my name and they are identifying me by my culture but I embrace it because I know the people that calls me that are not malicious and dont mean me harm. then this new guy work with was appalled that people had the audacity to call me that nickname.... he said it was derogatory to my people and culture and I should fight for my Pride... he was about to go to HR on my behalf before I had to tell him cool the jets buddy its none of your business what people call me you want a call me by my real name go ahead but dont get involved any further its none of your concern.....

He tough i was a push over because I didnt stand up for my culture.....

Witch made me think what an arsehole!

I just dont understand why people think if its offensive to them it should be offensive to me.... just boggles my mind....

 

To be fair, to continue to misidentify someone's sexuality after they've corrected you is just being intentionally rude and offensive. You're not being "PC" by correcting someone who misidentifies your gender or sexuality. Doesn't mean you should be rude about it, but you're well within your right to explain that they are misidentifying you.

Idk if you've actually encountered this, but it sounds rather odd. As this is equating race with nationality, which are two completely different things.

Anyway. There's a line that must be drawn. And I think it's fair to say that many people who complain about the rest of the world being too "politically correct" or "sensitive" are basically saying "I want to be dick and have no one challenge me over it."

So where do we draw the line? What is the distinction between being "PC" and reasonably offended? And what is the distinction between being open and speaking freely and just being a dick?

With the holidays coming up, I think what a lot of people point to, what has already been pointed out in this thread, is the reaction to holiday greetings.

So, here's an example: I'm an atheist (this is true, not part of the hypothetical scenario). If someone tells me "Merry Christmas!" and I respond with "I don't believe in Christ/God/etc.", I'm an asshole. But, if I reply with "Happy Holidays" that's perfectly fine. I may not be acknowledging the same holiday as them, but the meaning is still the same: "I hope you have a nice day/holiday/whatever it is you'll be doing this season." Now, if they were to then take offense at me replying with "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas", they are now being a dick.

Pretty simple, right?

I think this makes for another good example. If someone calls you something derogatory with regards to your race, nationality, appearance, religion, sexuality, gender, etc., you are well within your right to be offended by that and to challenge that offensive behavior. The same goes with someone simply referring to you by one of those attributes rather than by your preferred name.

Now, in this scenario, I think you're perfectly right. Someone telling you that you're a push over for not feeling or reacting a certain way is, in fact, an asshole. Is it right for someone to call you "Frenchy"? Not necessarily. But the fact that you don't mind means that no one else has any right to say anything about it. It's your business as to whether or not you allow that or take offense to it.

So, in summary: if you go out of your way to call someone by a name they don't like, intentionally misidentify them, or treat them in a manner that makes them feel unsafe or uncomfortable, you're being a dick. If you take offense to someone greeting you during the holidays by wishing you a happy holiday that is other than your own, or if you try to make people out as being push overs for not taking offense to something that you, yourself, might be offended over, you're being a dick.

In short: just don't be a dick.

 

@BaconMan8910

I whole heartily agree with you at not being a dick its that simple... Except my only pet peeve with all this PC bull crap is ON BOTH SIDE people over exaggerates or over reacts.... I do think we live in a hyper sensitive society now where Every little detail is over analyzed and over think things

In Example:
Cashier says Merry Christmas Sir at the grocery store to a jewish man people now a days think this

-Was he being a bigot since I am jewish or simply being nice? and assumes the worse....


Its like Damn just accept he is wishing you well thats it thats all nothing mere nothing less and its a cashier you probly wont remember next week anyways... so who cares!!!

 

I think there's a few ways to look at this.

In a world where Fox News and conservatives spin a narrative of the "War on Christmas", it is not unheard of, and maybe not even entirely uncommon in areas such as the "Bible Belt", to see conservative Christians trying to shove a religious "Christian" Christmas message down everyone's throat, as they perceive everything else as an affront to their beliefs and perceived ownership over the holiday season.

With that in mind, it's not hard to imagine how some people might feel a bit unnerved and wary of such greetings, especially if they are dressed in any traditional religious garb. You must also consider the demeanor of the individuals involved.

That's fairly situational, but something to think about.

But, even discounting that, we can't say with any degree of certainty or authority that second guessing people's greetings or that society, as a whole, being "hyper sensitive" is something that occurs with any degree of regularity in a majority of people. All evidence for that is purely anecdotal.

It's also important to note that the people with the most radical opinions tend to be the loudest and the loudest are often the most noticed. And so, we can't trust the reactions of individuals on the surface as being representative of society as a whole.

Rather, I think it's important to be objective in order to avoid "knee-jerk" reactions on all sides.

 

Was going to reply earlier, but had to drop kay off at train station, grab some groceries, and lunch.
*ahem*

100 or whenever years ago:
"I just don't see why people are offended when I say *n-word*."

The term 'political correctness' could be replaced with 'not being a dick to people.' It's not about being sensitive, it's about trying to stop people from being outright douches by using collective nouns as insults, thereby insulting members of that collective.

There's a difference between someone saying "That's so gay," obviously using it as a derogatory term.
And by myself saying to kay "You're so gay," using it playfully when I know she's bi.

One thing I'm confused on, though, is why this thread was started only talking about people not agreeing about which religion's December greeting to use, and having that as a standing point for "ALL POLITICAL CORRECTNESS IS TEH BADS!!1!"...

Btw, @BaconMan8910 how do you always put your arguments together so eloquently?

 

When I speak, I wish to comfortably speak without having to worry about my words. My instructor at class said that the new politically correct term to refer to an individual whose gender is unknown was to say 'ze' instead of 'he.' That kind of takes the fun out of comfortable speaking.

 

He says as a half-naked woman runs back into the shower at the bottom of my post.

My brains does do a think good, make my fingers go type type.

I have never heard of that. Not once. Are you sure you're instructor isn't just trying to slowly turn everyone in the world German?

Look, it's fine for you to say "he" or "she." If you refer to someone using the incorrect pronoun, they may feel a bit uncomfortable, but if they correct you and you then correct yourself, there is no problem.

When referring to someone whose gender I do not know in separate conversation, I generally refer to them as "they". I could be wrong, but I think that's just a rule of English. If you don't know a person's gender, don't assume their gender.

But, when push comes to shove, if you're really not sure, you can ask someone how they would like you to address them.

 

About the bisexual thing. I myself am bisexual and have been called gay before by people, including some of my friends. Does it bug me? No it doesn't. I could go on a huge rant about how "offended" I am, but I'm not offended and a culture where people think that I have to be offended by it is messed up. It's gone from being about being polite to being about whining and that's wrong. There comes a point where you have to grow up over this kind of thing.

I was harassed through out all of my teen years because there was a rumor that I was gay. It hurt and it stung, but I got over it. Why? Because the past does not define you are. It's called the past for a reason. Yes, I think about it once in a while, but that's it. I don't get mad about it, I don't go onto a twitter crusade about how being called gay (sorry I mean g*y) hurt me and still hurts me like it did when I was 13 because it doesn't. I've grown up and grown past that.

Part of being an adult is to not let stuff like this get to you. Yeah, I get that it all depends on the situation, but there is a such thing called taking it too far. A LOT of these people doesn't ask politely. Hell, most of these people who harp on and on about PC stuff aren't even gay, female, etc. It boils down to it being just complaining for the sake of complaining.

To use a recent example there was a game that was going to be put on steam greenlight called Tranny Gladiator. The dev said that he likes tran's people and that a lot of his friends are trans and wanted to make a game where you play as someone who is transgendered. He didn't know that it was a derogatory term. Then comes some PC person telling him hostility to pull the game off of steam for his own good and then a certain youtuber makes a video taking the piss out of it, calling it offensive and hate fueled. A day or so later the guy comes onto his twitter where he keeps saying I'm sorry and that he took the game down and that he had no idea it was offensive and meant no harm. Then he said that he was getting hundreds of death threats for it. By people who call themselves the good guys. And this was all in the name of being polite.

It's coming to the point where people like me, doomguy, cpt. kenny and core would be seen as the bad guys for not thinking the way other people do. Does that sound like a good PC thing? That's no linger caring about peoples feelings. when you hurt someone else's feelings (say send them a crap load of death threats even AFTER saying you were sorry and had no idea it was wrong) all in the name of not hurting peoples feelings, what does that become?

 

@Heizengard

Well said sir! Well said!

 

I think PC about Christmas was just a good way to kick off this discussion. I think as this progresses we will find out whether "ALL POLITICAL CORRECTNESS IS TEH BADS!!1!" or not.

My instructor is merely a CAD instructor, so it is not like he is teaching in a course that should inject ideas into our heads. Also, he does not enforce his ideas on us. Chances are, he heard about the idea from the University of Tennessee. Besides, being in the army may have also taught him that there are more things to worry about than someone's feelings over a grammatical error. Who knows. And chances are, I have made a mistake mentioning this here, since this is more for discrimination and inclusivety.

Anyway, below are some links. The first is some shmuck's opinion, the second a Fox News article, and the last another article from another site. Just how biased this is, I do not know. Someone else be the judge of that.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...czwXTBaa5GUZlOvjA&sig2=U2JwkWk09GDyCzSMVNzcjg

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...stAj0k_y3UYHEq-0g&sig2=mMtfe7XncEY3wUkDq0jg5A

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...gBvg5vW-9te3dKHIg&sig2=_nqHYPI7XkQc9EedS7IPfQ

I pity that game developer.
All that effort, only to get howled at to cease and desist. There is another game I saw called HATRED, in which you are a psychopath that goes on a rampage in NYC. You kill innocent civilians without mercy, slaughter
police, and waste soldiers. No health packs, instead, you heal by personally executing a victim that survived your mass shooting.
And the guy that made a game with an accidentally derogatory term got so much more flak than the people that made such a hate-filled game? The developers of HATRED at least got to keep the Steam green light (after being temporarily removed, initially).

 

I refer you to my original post.

No one is making you out to be the "bad guy" for thinking or feeling any certain way. It only crosses a line when you go out of your way to intentionally misidentify someone or treat someone in a way that makes them feel unsafe or uncomfortable.

Yes, you are bi. And you don't mind people referring to you as being gay. And that's fine. But we cannot assume that you speak for everyone within that demographic, or even a majority of people. One person's experience is not, necessarily, representative of the norm.

So, if someone who identifies as bisexual would rather be referred to as bi, that seems perfectly reasonable. As gay implies homosexuality where as bi implies bisexuality (their actual sexuality). It's not unreasonable to assume that someone would rather be correctly identified rather than have people brush off their sexual identity and lump them in with another group.

In other words, you're not a jerk for thinking it's fine for people to refer to you as gay. You do you. But if you refer to someone who is bi, pan, ace, straight, or any other sexuality by some other sexuality and they then ask you to correctly identify them, you should do so. I mean, if you went through your whole life telling people your preferred name and everyone you met is like "nah, I'm going to call you Bridget", you would either just have to change your name or you would eventually just get tired of it.

A LOT of people go out of their way to misidentify and harass minorities, be they gay, trans, women, Hispanic, etc. Hell, most people who harp on about "SJW" stuff are just complaining for the sake of complaining.

See how that can work on both sides?

Let's be clear about something: this isn't an Us VS Them scenario. Nor should it be. Rather, "the purpose of argument should not be victory, but progress."

While I have a few problems with TotalBiscuit (YouTube personality), I think he's right in saying that when you have one group of people calling you an SJW and another group calling you a Nazi, you're pissing off the right kind of idiots.

Again, let me refer you to my first post. If someone makes an innocent mistake and you decide to jump onto them over it rather than politely correcting them, you're being a dick. But if they then politely correct you and you go out of your way to continue to misidentify them or use a slur that they find offensive, you're being a dick.

It's not that hard.

See previous paragraph(s).

You know what I don't get? There are extremists on all sides of any discussion that seem to think it's okay to issue death threats to people. Whether disingenuous or not. Like, you would think that, no matter what your stance, people would realize that once they get it in their head to start issuing death threats, that maybe things have gone a bit too far.

I don't know. Maybe that's just me, but that seems like it would be a universal response.

Again, most of what I have to say here, I've already said. But, just to be clear: you wouldn't call a black person the n word. You shouldn't call a trans person the t word.

Did the developer of this game know better? I'm a little unsure. Sure, they apologized on Twitter, but they've engaged in other activity, since, that makes me suspicious of their motives. I can't help but wonder if this was a publicity stunt, similar to Hatred (which I'll get to in a moment).

It's important to note how many games make their way to Greenlight that do try to be intentionally offensive in the hopes of attracting attention from the "anti-SJW" crowd and from YouTube personalities, such as the one you just mentioned. As such, it's hard not to assume, at first glance, that a title such as "Tranny Gladiator" was not meant to be intentionally offensive and abrasive.

Again: "the purpose of argument should not be victory, but progress."

I don't think anyone said that he does?

As a veteran, I can tell you that I have the capacity to think like a soldier and still be a decent human being when someone tells me that I've misidentified their gender. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Read the articles you linked. Knowing how often Fox News is factually accurate, I'd say the bias runs deep.

That said, I haven't gotten around to fact checking these (let's be honest, I probably won't. I've got more important things to worry about.), but whether or not these are accurate reports, it doesn't speak for society as a whole. But rather that single campus. It is also nearly impossible to gauge just how deep this runs within that university.

In other words, this is isn't sufficient evidence of "SJW" political correctness running rampant.

The thing about Hatred is that it tried to be intentionally controversial in order to hype up the game. This isn't unheard of or even uncommon, even in the AAA industry.

Violence in games isn't uncommon. Violence against the weak, defenseless, or even innocent isn't uncommon, either. We all remember when CoD had us slaughter an entire airport. The problem with Hatred is how clearly it was trying to play to the anti-"SJW" crowd. It was petty and angsty and intentionally so.

There is no malice in that. No "Hatred", pardon the pun. Just pure, cynical marketing.

When a game comes along like "Tranny Gladiator", it's hard not to assume that the intent is malicious. Again, like I've already said in this post, "It's important to note how many games make their way to Greenlight that do try to be intentionally offensive in the hopes of attracting attention from the "anti-SJW" crowd and from YouTube personalities, such as the one you just mentioned. As such, it's hard not to assume, at first glance, that a title such as "Tranny Gladiator" was not meant to be intentionally offensive and abrasive."

So again, in summary: this is only a battle for those who would take sides, for those who would hold extremist views and actively combat the views of others.

Ultimately, it's as simple as being kind to one another. Sure there are those "SJWs" and those "anti-'SJW's" that will turn every little mistake, every misunderstanding into a fight to the death. But, they are not the majority. They are, simply, the very vocal minority. And it's important to remember that and be objective about the situations that you find yourself in.

To assume that someone asking you to change your behavior toward them is overly sensitive, would be just as bad as those that might try to shove "political correctness" down your throat. There's a nice middle ground. Let's all try to find it, yeah?

 

Aych damnit, Baconman! I was gonna post, but needed a shower first. You made all my points and then some! XD
Also, I'm rather sceptical that someone can go their entire life, especially having friends who are trans, without knowing that that word is derogatory...

Thread related:

 

Well, your words are teaching me.
I guess I get tired of hearing people fuss about little things and being offended about little things, hence my frustration towards political correctness.
I will now back away and let the grown ups do the talking.

@Mafiacow
Honestly, I had no idea that word was derogatory, honestly. I did go to a church that held an absolutely negative view on anything rather than male-and-female interests and relationships, as far as marriage goes. For this reason I have no idea what other people outside of that church really think. Also, I stayed off the internet for most of my life.