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Which is abused worse: Patreon or Steam Greenlight?

Discussion in 'Hall of the Elders' started by Heizengard, Feb 28, 2016.

  1. Heizengard AKA Cernel Joson

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    Never posted a topic here before (I think) so I'm not sure if this belongs in here or in Video Games. If it should be moved, then someone move it.


    So a graph was released recently of three of the top earning people on Patreon who earn somewhere around 3,000 to 4,000 dollars a month. For those who don't know, Patreon is a website that was made for creators to earn money from fans. Fans pay them whatever amount that they want a month and they can cancel at anytime. Here is the kicker though. These three people don't make any content. In some cases, they might have made one thing at one point in time, but then nothing else. Patreon does not require it's users to show proof of making content after the first time.

    [​IMG]
    (Sorry if the image is somehow "offensive".)

    It seems that Tweeting is considered as content worth getting paid for. Trust me, there are more then just these three people, but this was the graph I was able to find.

    Lets move onto Steam Greenlight.

    Steam Greenlight is a program created by Steam where aspiring indie devs pay 100 dollars for the chance to have their game on the storefront. Post your trailer to the site, and people can vote on it to see whether or not it'll be put up for sale. Naturally this has led to a lot of unsavory things. Stuff from scams to broken promises to just selling unity asset packs as full games.

    (hopefully this was the right video)

    Now comes the question: which is abused worse? My answer is Patreon and here's why.

    Think of Patreon as one of those kickstarter scams (or The Mighty No. 9). Someone puts something up there that you are really interested in, so you pledge a one time payment of 10 dollars and the project gets funded. About a year goes by and you've heard nothing on the thing you supported, and probably never will. You are now out ten dollars. Now lets do the same thing with Patreon. Someone makes a thing you really liked and you want to support them making more content, so you give them ten dollars a month. About a year goes by and there has been nothing on it, so you cancel your payment to them, but you are still out 120 dollars.

    Someone releases an asset filled game on steam for the price of ten dollars, and shock and awe, it's awful, but you get a refund on it and now you've got your ten dollars back. You cannot do that on Patreon. Once your money is gone, it's gone.

    Anyway that's what I think on the matter. Now I will shrink away as I await the possible replies to this topic.

    EDIT: Fixed glaring math error. No, I can't maths.
     
    #1 Heizengard, Feb 28, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
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  2. Paladine321 Trophy Collector

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    I would say Patreon will always be abused more. Look how much money Anita Sarkesian scammed off of people for her "Tropes on Women" series which never even got completed. What I find offensive is the fact there is no real recourse to fraud under the Patreon guidelines and it's pretty much a given that your going to lose money if the person you are giving it to is untrustworthy. I personally would love to see class action lawsuits brought against Patreon abusers like miss Quinn and Anita, and then maybe after a few "examples" are made, Patreon will take steps as a company to intervene and block abusive users from receiving funds until promised services are rendered.
     
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  3. Core Trophy Hunter

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    Patreon doesn't sound good (at least with the abusers). Is more restricted to abusers that can do a little bit with games. Since I hate "early access" and the potential of the game not being completed or still being in development for 10+ years, I do not give my support. Even less for Patreon, since I would rather pay $30 for the product rather than help development by giving $120, and still having to pay for the product. Sadly, I am selfish like that, but I despise the fact that people can be dishonest and cheat others.
    It is those few bad apples that ruin the bunch, since Patreon and Steam GL can be useful for people.
     
  4. Vashnik Guest

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    Pretty sure the FBI can do something about it regardless of how loose the "guidelines" are. After all, they took out MegaUpload and it's not even the FBI's jurisdiction. However Patreon is based in California, so it's well within FBI jurisdiction for "fraud" cyber crimes. Just file a complaint to the FBI. Pretty sure that enough of those complaints to the FBI will get Patreon's attention when the FBI starts knocking on their door during their investigation for fraud. Maybe it will also give the FBI something productive to do instead of trying to force Apple to create a global backdoor to every single one of their products in the name of "national security" just to get access to a few iPhones used by terrorists.
     
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  5. Core Trophy Hunter

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    It is not exactly Patreon's fault, it's just those that misuse or abuse the system. Now if the system was rearranged so that the user's of Patreon must payback the money they were given because they did not reach their plainly stated goal (or at least show convincing progress), I would consider that better.
    And with terrorists, they will just come up with a different method of communications. Not like iPhone is the only secure method of communication.
    If someone wants to avoid online harassment, just stay offline (or at least don't go anywhere to be harassed). These are the sort of people/things that ruin a useful tool.
     
  6. Paladine321 Trophy Collector

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    But I thought the internet was supposed to be a "safe space" where all little SJW and feminists only have to hear the bs they agree with and not reality

     
    #6 Paladine321, Mar 9, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2016
  7. Heizengard AKA Cernel Joson

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    That's twitter.

    Edit: hahahaha don't know how that got there.
     
    #7 Heizengard, Mar 9, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2016
  8. Vashnik Guest

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    Doesn't matter if Patreon is at fault or not. The FBI would have to knock on their door anyway, even to serve a warrant to access user data when investigating fraud by Patreon users. If enough people point to Patreon and the FBI knocks, maybe Patreon would then decide to actually do something about the people abusing the Patreon system. Nothing's going to change unless people put pressure on a company that is not making it more strict on developers who never release progress updates and proof of progress. Get the law involved and maybe Patreon will finally put more pressure on the lazy asses that aren't actually doing anything that their patrons are paying for.

    Not really the point I was making. It was more of a jab at the FBI abusing their legal authority by forcing and demanding through the courts that Apple create backdoors for the FBI, when it would completely undermine any security and privacy set in place for all customers, and if Apple complies, opens it up to more countries demanding the same thing for all tech companies until all security and attempts at privacy is rendered useless.
     
  9. Heizengard AKA Cernel Joson

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    This. People really need to put more pressure on the broken system that is Patreon. I heard that they changed their guidelines, but that it was just harder to get on there, and easier to exploit.
     

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