Identify as X

Okay, before I start this thread and discussion, I'd like to get one thing out of the way: this is not a shot at transgender individuals who are as such examples:

Male identifies as female
Vise versa

A few years ago, I was finally figuring out what the definition of a transgendered individual meant. However, in recent months, I've discovered something that I found, in my opinion, to be one of the most ridiculous things that I've ever seen since people started declaring that our government is run by reptilian shape-shifters:

I've noticed that some people have been self-identifying as what are called otherkin, godkin, starkin, etc. For those not aware of the definitions of such words, here's some simple explanations:

Otherkin: Identifying as something outside of the human race (a rock, a tree, a dog, etc.)
Godkin: Identifying as a God
Starkin: Identifying as a star (e.g.: the Sun)

I can understand if you're a male and feel a lot more feminine than masculine and vise versa, but all other forms of self-identification in my opinion are just plain ludicrous.

But the absolute worst part is this: in these months when I've discovered this new trend, I'm finding it harder and harder to distinguish people who are serious about their self-identification as these ridiculous things and those who are being satirical/trolling.

So now that I've said all that I've said, what's your opinion on this topic? Should people only be allowed to identify as their assigned gender and the opposite or should everyone be allowed to identify as whatever it is they'd like? Because if that's so, we're gonna have to make a whole lot more public bathrooms...

 

Well I am A Jedi Nothing more nothing less... Just a Jedi! DEAL with it!

so would that make me a jedikin?

 

Time to piss off some people I guess......Well being from a different generation than most of the "SJW" community, I feel that it is OK for a person to sympathize or identify themselves with whatever they choose. That is the right they have as human beings. Having said that, there is a distinct difference in identifying one's self as something and it actually being true. Take a furry for instance. Genetically, Tim might associate and identify himself with a certain animal, but he will always be physically human. But in today's culture if you don't tell Tim what he wants to hear, i.e. that he is a 250 pound golden retriever in a turtleneck sweater, he gets upset and call you phobic, racist, or evil. You have to sometimes just say whatever and go on about life, knowing that Tim is nuts if he shits in a corner and pees on the newspaper every morning before he goes to work at the mechanic's shop from 8 till 6.

If you take this into the SJW realm another way. If you are born with a penis and identify yourself as a woman, you have every right to do so. But it does not change the fact that genetically you are still male. If it makes you feel better to address yourself as Bambi then go for it. It's none of my business unless you make it my business. You are still a chick with a dick, and you will always genetically be closer to male than female no matter how your brain says it wants to believe. Caitlin Jenner, was and will always be genetically male no matter how many people tell him that he is not. There is nothing homophobic, anti gay, or hateful about it. It is just fact. Science proves it, no matter how subculture denies it.

BTW, K3nny is a Jedi, his midichlorian count is through the roof.

I myself am a 1946 Rolls Canardly. I Roll down one hill and Canardly get up the next..

 

I agree with Paladine321 mostly. I will call people whatever they want me to call them, if they are nice about it. If they call me an asshole or some word that no one save for them know what it means, then I will not call them what they want. If they want someone to treat them nice, but they don't treat others nice, then what's the point? There is a saying that goes "treat others the way you want to be treated" and a lot of these people don't understand that, but that's a topic I don't want to go into due to complete fear of backlash. My girlfriend is trans and she likes to be called she so I do so, and am completely fine with it. Even before we got together, I still did what she asked since she asked me nicely and she was a good friend of mine. Anyway that's what this shitlord thinks.

I don't dare say my thoughts on otherkin though due to complete fear of backlash.

 

@Paladine321 Finally someone that understand that I am Jedi with a high medichlorian count. People say my mediclhorian count is even bigger than Anakin Skywalker and my light saber is twice his size to...... awwh who am i kidding it will never be as huge as anakin skywalker

@Heizengard but are you not an arsehole? my good sir so really they are just pointing a fact ??? I kid I kid & yes you would feel that backlash of my force push if you ever questioned my jediness!!!

 

There is a difference between God and god. Identifying yourself as a God is like calling yourself God, instead of a god. I think it would be better to define a Godkin as "identifying as a deity" to prevent this confusion. Even in Skyrim, they were careful to use god when explaining the divinity of the 9 gods, with Talos being human born and made it into deity status by a nation (before Elven dominion). It should also be noted that while one could call themselves a deity, it would not make it so and it would be harder to maintain that claim. To really be divine, others must also acknowledge your existence as divine. Otherwise, it really becomes more of an egotistical claim. The best one could claim is magician (Magikin?), and people are likely to accept that more than deity status. Becoming a deity also comes with it a religion, and for a religion to properly exist and flourish, you need followers. Let's be honest, how many people could seriously acknowledge another of their kind (a human acknowledging another human) as a deity this day an age? Even in the Biblical sense, no one accepted Jesus as the divine son of God until those who witnessed his miracles shared their accounts of those events and even in this day and age, people are still debating on whether he was actually divine or not, and there are even some who still refuse the scientific evidence of just his mere existance. So divinity status is definitely not without it's headaches and honestly, not worth claiming to be divine. And those who do accept you as a deity, are sure to pester you for favor because of the natural greed within all human kind (regardless of what people identify as). Out of all the existences, deity probably has the most headaches involved.

For this reason, I am unable to accept anyone as a deity. One would truly have to be divine to put up with the state of this world and the human nature, and not get headaches fulfilling their role as a deity to right the things that are going wrong.

As for Starkin, the definition makes sense, however I've heard of Starkin being more used to group races born from other planets, or share the definition of Martian, Alien (space), and/or Celestial beings. Could also be confused with god-like, if they have a unique attribute that we don't understand yet and class it as divinity until we discover how that attribute works.

Eh, Jedi is more of an order, not a type of "sentient object" (for a lack of better description). While you can claim to be a Jedi, you would not be a Jedikin, because the order is a group of diverse sentient existences already. Thus, it would be more accurate to identify yourself as a Jedi human (or Twi'lek, or a Jedi Saiyan if that's your fancy) or the Force itself, rather than an Order that uses the Force. Yeah, I'm totally raining on your parade. lol

If she's already female, and wants to be called a she, then that's not transgender. So I'm a little confused. Is she a he that identifies as a she? Or a she that identifies as a he? Because there was no mention of a he (genetically or formerly identified), so I'm trying to understand your example.
(And I feel like I've had this particular discussion before.... so forgive me if we've already covered this in a different topic, either here or in a previous incarnation of this site).

As for the transgender issue, we're just going to have to make unisex bathrooms more standardized when new buildings start popping up. It's also going to be quite expensive to reform buildings that have male and female bathrooms to accommodate a unisex bathroom as well. This way it doesn't make anyone feel awkward when a male who identifies as a female walk into the women's bathroom and when a female who identifies as a male walks into the men's bathroom. Baka and Test anyone? Although not quite the same situation, it still has that awkwardness when they're just not sure which gender Hideyoshi is.

 

Oh I thought it was clear >.<

No it's a he, but wants to be called she because he is transgender

 

That's what I thought, but I didn't want to jump to that conclusion because I still had doubts in my conclusion and wanted to make sure I was understanding that correctly. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

@Vashnik why do you have to piss all over my dreams man?

 

No, that's a religion, not an identification. You wish to know and commune with the force, not identify as a jedi. This actually exists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jediism
Unless you think you're actually a Gungan, then you'd be Gungankin. Or maybe you think you're the reincarnation of Obi Wan Kenobi. Then you're Jedikin.
As a sort of straddler on the fence on the issue of identification, I'm totally comfortable with LGTBQ as identification, but beyond that you start to lose me. Asexual, aok. If you can put it into a Xsexual format, I'm fine. But the idea of the -kins sort of pushes it a bit far with me. And I'm probably one of the more SJW-friendly members of the forum. BLM, support but think their tactics are ruining their chances. Some feminist critics like the dreaded Anita Sarkesian are fundamentally correct in their assertion but don't help their messages to achieve the desired outcome, instead putting it into a binary distinction that is fundamentally offputting. I think that a lot of these issues aren't being handled well, but are issues that deserve their time in the sun. So I'd prefer SJW was less Social Justice Warrior, and more Social Justice Scholar because I fundamentally support the right of a guy to get freaky with a lady while he's dressed as Barney and she's dressed as Pikachu, but I don't want to be told that when I flinch a bit at it, I'm part of the society's purity police. I can understand and still not immediately accept it as 100% normal because it's not, and that's perfectly fine. Nobodys normal and the longer that people keep trying to tackle the beast of society by persecuting it's members as villains like their team rocket or something just doesn't work. People became ok with gay and lesbian couples when we began to see them as people. They weren't monsters trying to destroy marriage, they were people like Ellen Degeneres who saw an attractive lady in a dress and couldn't help but look at dat ass. She may be a woman, but she liked dat ass as I do, and that's perfectly ok and allows me to understand in a way that arguments at the end of the day can't. It's a simple fact.
... I went on a bit of a tangent there.

 

I could be mistaken, but I think most people differentiate between gender and sex. In the most simple of interpretations, sex refers to your genitals, gender refers to the pronouns that you prefer.

I really don't think there's a problem with just using a person's preferred pronouns. I mean, if you identify as male (even if your sex is male) you wouldn't be happy if the entire world just decided that you should be referred to with female pronouns.

With regards to the restroom thing, I think people should be able to use the restroom of the gender with which they identify. I think most issues with it are extremely hypothetical and hyperbolic.

But, honestly, I would just be fine with having unisex restrooms all around.

Never heard of identifying as godkin, etc.

I feel like we've had this conversation in another thread..

 

I am currently having a public godkin restroom constructed. We gods must stay away from mere, weak mortals.

My idea is, if I did not have the equipment to carry a child in the first place, then that means I am a man (male, at the least), both physically and mentally.

As for how I identify them, that depends. I will put on a nice show and will not compromise my standards much. I will be polite, but if you want me to refer to you as a woman when you are a man, I will do what I can to avoid using pronouns or words to cater towards what you are not. This does not mean I will speak to you as an 'it' since that has got to be an insult. I will just try to avoid gender related terms.

If Cpt_K3nny seriously insists I call him a jedikin, I might take on a very acidic personality out of annoyance (I doubt he will insist on it). Or I could get nervous because he is a loon (sorry, just make an example). Generally, I will be nice, though. I could go play along and even enjoy talking about it. But if the Captain truly thinks he is a jedikin and he is not joking about that belief, I could have some problems. If a person insists on identifying himself or herself as something imaginary, I tend to get annoyed.

Being a man of (relative) conviction and having a Christian upbringing, one of my greatest fears is that the one I may wish to spend my life with tells me that he was a she, since that is what he wanted to be. Since my upbringing was that I should only see the secret areas of my wife after being married, something will have to give.

I do not want one of these ugly surprises, something I read in a manga: (stored in spoiler to save space)

Spoiler: Onidere- Example

See how cute that girl is? Yes, quite cute.

And then this happens:


This poor guynever expected to see the truth.

In short, I just do not want to get married to the wrong sex and /or gender because of identification issues.

I can't quite agree with that part. That is, if you mean a female that considers herself to be male.
It will be awkward having a woman step up to the urinal next to me. Of course, I doubt I would try to see if the person next to me really has the family jewels or not.

 

Just a note at the thread: When people say they identify as a fox (for example), they don't actually think they are genetically a fox, they just believe that their consciousness should have been given a fox body rather than a human.
This is exactly the same case as is for trans peeps; their consciousness was put in a body of different sex than what it "should" have been.
As Baconman said, in simple terms, "sex" is what's "down there", and gender is in your head.

My personal take on gender is as I just said, it's in your head. It isn't actually a thing that exists. I don't identify as a male, nor a female, I identify as a person. If you took my brain and put it in another body, I'd still be me, just with a different shell. Society has needlessly given subsets of behaviour and preference the name of gender, as is shown in "boys" and "girls" toy aisles in shopping centres.
As for my pronouns, I just go by what my body shows; a male in both genitalia and body structure (though from some angles and poses, I can and have been mistaken for female XD).

Haha, the perks of being bi~

And as you said in another thread, it's just like asking to be called "Sam" when you don't like your given name of "Samantha". If you're gonna go out of your way to call someone a name they don't like when it's just as easy to call them by a different name they've already asked you to, then you're just being a douche. Simple as that.

So, you don't consider sterile women or elderly women to be women then?...

I bet everyone here has had a trans person use the urinal next to them. XD

 

Oh, they have the equipment. It just does not work.
And I made that statement earlier in regards to myself, not everyone else. Just clearing up any confusion.

 

There's a difference between having the equipment and it being unusable (sterile/shut down). Natural-born women have the equipment, while equipement that is sterile or inoperable.

If the thousands of people that used the same restroom as I did at nearly the same time I did were trans, they weren't flaunting it (males claiming to be female) or they weren't born in a woman's body (female claiming to be male). Both are what create awkward situations in the restroom, and can make it uncomfortable.

 

Meh I don't really care anymore if a woman, trans, gay, lesbian or straight man see's my genitalia in a restroom anymore or anywhere else for that matters.... you kind of have to move pass that insecurity and awkwardness quickly once you have to get circumcised at the age of 25 due to a misadventure.

but that's just for this guy I can understand for others....


Speaking of identity that day I really did feel like I lost my identity I felt like a stranger in my own skin ... was not very fun.....

Was that to much information?

 

I don't mean this as an insult, but as a sincere criticism. I think you need to be more open minded. There is much more to the world than your limited perception of it, regardless of how long held or deeply rooted that perception is.

As I said in another thread: "...if you refer to someone who is bi, pan, ace, straight, or any other sexuality by some other sexuality and they then ask you to correctly identify them, you should do so. I mean, if you went through your whole life telling people your preferred name and everyone you met is like "nah, I'm going to call you Bridget", you would either just have to change your name or you would eventually just get tired of it."

Then, I was discussing sexuality. But the same concept applies to gender identity. If someone, whom you regard as male, asks to be referred to by female pronouns, what harm does it do to oblige them? The only harm it stands to cause is to your entrenched world view. Whereas, insisting on not recognizing them as they request stands to harm their mental health and sense of self-worth.

Chances are, you won't know their sex is female. Trans people go to great lengths to appear as the gender with which they identify, for a variety of reasons, but one of the most prominent of which is to make transition easier. What I mean is that many people have a similar mindset as yourself, often more extreme. They will go out of their way to misidentify a trans person or raise questions like "aren't you a girl/boy?" Some even go as far as to intentionally berate, ostracize, or otherwise physically or mentally harm them for their desire to be recognized, even on the most basic of levels (using the correct pronouns), as the gender with which they genuinely identify.

In addition, if someone does not possess male genitalia, they're probably not going to be using the urinal, anyway. And, even if they were, you wouldn't be able to see or identify their genitals unless you went out of your way to do so, especially considering how many restrooms have dividers.

But, that aside, why does it matter? Why do the genitals of the person using the same restroom as you matter? I know you might say that it makes you uncomfortable, but I'm asking why does it make you uncomfortable?

Again, I'm all for just being able to use the restroom of the gender with which you identify. Building unisex restrooms isn't a bad idea on paper (I would be fine with having only unisex restrooms), but then we have to also consider the social implications. Trans people are a marginalized, disadvantaged, and even, sometimes, demonized portion of society. They are, by in large, treated like mental cases and find themselves on the receiving end of a myriad of abuse and "orders" to accept that their gender identity should be exactly what everyone else says that it is, daily.

By creating separate restrooms specifically for trans people (and people that have no issue relieving themselves alongside trans people) we reinforce the idea that trans people are the outliers in society, that their gender identity is not to be taken seriously, and that they exist in a gender outside of whatever they identify as. As such, we risk encouraging their ostracization.

There is also the fact that many trans women may not feel comfortable using the restroom alongside males (cis or trans), and vise versa. For many of the same reasons that a cis male might be uncomfortable sharing a restroom with a cis female (which, again, I don't quite understand).

 

Allow me to retract what I have said here.
My intention is to be civil, polite and not to cause friction. This does not mean I will like it. And I doubt I need to like something to have an open mind.
That being said, I gauged my idea off of someone who was being annoying with their preference, since I am not sure just how aggressive or not one would be about preference. Or how they might react to slips in speech that go against what they prefer. Since I have yet to meet anyone who insists on a gender preference that does not match their sex (learning that there was a difference to the two terms is quite new to me), I will just cross that bridge once I get to it.
Is this a more acceptable mindset?

I intended this as a weak joke. I didn't expect to get anything serious about it. But, here we go...

Part 1: As I stated a moment ago, that was a sort of joke. I wanted to say something that might make someone say "Wait a minute..."
I do not care to discuss this particular part any further for that reason.

Part 2: Since the differentiation of gender and sex was recently made known to me, I assumed that restrooms were sex oriented, not for gender preference. Because of this, I thought that little sign next to the restroom door meant something. For this reason, I have thought that restrooms were a relatively private area.
Being taught that people should go to their respective restrooms is what has made me feel that their there should be a separation, such as one time when I was in public elementary school: I attempted to step into the girl's restroom, to see if maybe there were alarms (2nd grader thinking). That was the first time I experienced Warp Speed: I was instantly returned back to my classroom. That was a backing to what I learned about going to the corresponding restroom.
For why reason it matters to me personally, is because that was how I learned. And from what I have learned, I have developed my standards to live by a sense of morals. If I had no morals, then none of this would matter to me. That would be the reason to my discomfort: it goes against both what I have learned and my sense of morals.
As for a unisex restroom, I would have no problem if one were constructed. After all, was it not plainly marked or presumed/assumed to be unisex? If I had a problem, it would be my fault for entering in.

Part 3: Here is a question about the unisex restrooms. You mentioned they were not a bad idea on paper. What exactly do you mean by this? Are there problems that could arise from constructing one? Or is it a theoretical thing? I was just hoping you could add some detail or clarify this.


I have said enough now. Just wanted to give a reason.

*thought before posting: "Here goes nothing."*

 

My thought's exactly. I too am wondering what the intent was for "not a bad idea on paper." There are plenty of reasons to have unisex restrooms. It opens up a whole new level of relief when either the men's or the women's restrooms are otherwise, occupied or full, and you just can't hold it any longer. Transgenders no longer have to go by their genitalia as it favors no sex/gender. Perhaps a family needs to use the restroom to change a baby's diaper, or a kid who still needs supervision, while also needing to use the restroom him/herself (chances of both parents needing to go at the same time are slim). Easier to consider unisex restrooms when you have limited space and can only include one restroom in the building plans/renovations to maximize the space for business (maybe the business doesn't expect to have a crowd all throughout the business hours). Perhaps it is also to make it handicap accessible while one or the other restroom is down for maintenance (cleaning). So I'd really like to know just how it would "reinforce the idea that trans people are the outliers in society" when unisex restrooms actually serve a bigger, better purpose than you're making it sound, BaconMan. It's more inclusive than exclusive.

 

Hey, you're a grown-ass man. It's not my job to tell you what is and isn't acceptable.

Since when are public restrooms private? The most privacy you can hope for is to find an open stall.

What I meant was, what logical, practical reason is there?

I get that it's most likely due to upbringing/personal beliefs/etc. But I'm asking, what practical reason could there possibly be?

I'm genuinely curious, but this is really meant as more of a question to ask yourself.

Allow me to clarify.

Your post here seems to be working under the assumption that we would switch entirely to unisex restrooms or have unisex restrooms in addition to allowing trans individuals to use the restroom of the gender with which they identify.

When I say that it seems like a good idea on paper (to have an additional "unisex" restroom which trans individuals can use), I mean it sounds like a quick fix. "Now trans people have their own restroom which anyone who is comfortable relieving themselves alongside trans people can use. Problem solved." But it is born of a "separate but equal" ideology.

With that in mind, that I'm referring to trans individuals being barred from the "gendered" restroom associated with their gender identity and being forced to either use the "gendered" restroom corresponding to their sex or the unisex restroom (or worse, being forced to use the unisex restroom, only), go back and read my post again in context.

With regards to what I said about not minding the idea of unisex restrooms all around, I was referring to being comfortable with just doing away with "gendered" restrooms, entirely.

I get that would probably never happen, it probably isn't a popular idea (even amongst trans individuals), and I'm not really even advocating for it. I'm just tossing out my thoughts on the idea of having gender specific restrooms to begin with. Which, again, I don't quite understand.